061 Naturally Active With Fiona Winter

In this week's episode, I am joined by Fiona Winter, a coach who specialises in holistic health and well-being, movement and body awareness.

Join us as we discuss:

• The therapeutic and accessible aspects of nature-based movement, emphasise its role in connecting with the environment through outdoor fitness and mindful practices.
• The importance of moonlit walks and the combination of music with movement, which enhances mental health and fosters safety, confidence, and connection among women.

About Fiona Winter:
Somatic Movement Educator, Embodied Facilitator and Coach. She has been facilitating, mentoring, coaching and training others for over 40 years. She specialises in holistic health and well-being, movement and body awareness, personal development…and fun! Over the past 40+ years, she has combined her teaching practice in a wide range of community settings, with working in teacher training, mentoring and personal development for a wide variety of groups from small community groups to national organisations.

​Fiona specialises in distilling her experience, knowledge and skills into effective real-life applications to help people develop awareness, choice and manage change. Fiona now has a home studio where she offers, and hosts, classes, coaching, workshops and training.

www.fionawinter.com
Move in Nature. https://youtu.be/dDeQz-zbuj0?si=UuP7uBsX2bPJm5Hw
Facebook page Energy Moves in Nature https://www.facebook.com/EnergyMovesinNature

About Sarah Bolitho:

Sarah Bolitho helps fitness and health professionals develop their careers and grow their businesses by providing specialist training in teaching, assessing, and internal quality assurance, together with qualifications in exercise referral and disability.   

With over 30 years in the health-related fitness and physical activity fields, Sarah has a wealth of experience and knowledge.  She has worked in most roles in the industry from group exercise to personal training but specialised in working with specialist populations.  For over 25 years Sarah has trained fitness and health professionals to work with clients with long-term conditions, mental health issues, disabilities, older adults and pre/post-natal women.  

She has a post-graduate diploma in exercise and health behaviour and extensive training in supporting behaviour change.  She has worked with awarding organisations to develop qualifications and training and with accreditation bodies to endorse high-quality non-regulated training. 

For more about the training and support Sarah offers, visit www.sarahbolitho.com or contact her at admin@sarahbolitho.com.

Follow her on social media
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fabnewlous_active_lives
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/fitnesscareer mentor
Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahbolitho

Transcript

Sarah (00:02.446)

Hello and welcome to this episode of Creating Active Lives and my guest Fiona Winter. Fiona and I actually have quite a lot of parallels which we'll find out more about as we go through the episode. But she's based in South Wales and she's a somatic movement educator, an embodied facilitator and coach. And Fiona's going to tell us exactly what that is in a bit. But she's been facilitating mentoring, coaching and training others for over 40 years and specialises in very much a holistic approach to health and wellbeing, in movement, in body awareness, personal development, and one of the most important things for me, fun. And like me, Fiona's a very much a believer that we need to be moving more, not necessarily exercising, but moving, but also that we need to be doing more of it outside. So Fiona, tell us a little bit about yourself and we'll move into why we just want to get everybody outside.

Fiona Winter (00:46.85)

Well thanks for the introduction Sarah. Yeah it's interesting 40 odd years ago my classes, my exercise to music classes were called Fitness with Fiona the Fun Way and I don't think I've ever left that behind. So I actually came from a dance background.

worked professionally for a few years. But I was always interested in teaching people to dance who perhaps hadn't danced before. And that then moved over into the fitness industry in the early eighties. So my focus was always, how can I get more people interested in having the sort of joy and fun that I have out of moving, whether that's dancing or as it was then exercise to music, who've never done it before.

And I was curious. So I've involved myself very much with people stepping onto that ladder. And that's taken me through into teacher training, training people to teach people who are new to fitness, but also in my own work in community, going into areas where there wouldn't necessarily be perhaps a senior's fitness class before, or people haven't had that opportunity. So that's been a thread that's gone through all my work, through teacher training that I've done through a lot of work with community in the Welsh Valleys, projects around walking, getting people up to a two mile walk. And now actually even online and working with groups like people with MS or people with Parkinson's and the new projects that I'm doing, Move in Nature and Dancing in the Dark.

Sarah (02:28.814)

Which we will talk about. It's really interesting you're saying about sort of bringing the fun back into it and teaching people and things because I think anyone who's got children, who's observed children, who's grandchildren or whatever, put any kind of rhythm on and it could be music, it could just be any rhythm and there's an instinct to move and there's no pressure, there's no self -consciousness or anything. Kids just move, they move.

Do you think somewhere along the line we kind of unlearn that?

Fiona Winter (03:01.442)

Oh, definitely. We go from not realizing we're being observed to being acutely aware that we might be being observed. And so one of the things that I've done is brought in much more of a somatic approach to the work. So rather than instructing people, which of course, some people then perhaps do what you're asking them to do, even if they don't want to, and even if it's not quite right for them, is offering invitations. How about you try this? I invite you to give this a go do it your way. So very much my work has moved over from that teaching to perhaps what I would call facilitating or just holding the space for people and providing a container for them to explore what is possible. And I think that's another phrase, what's possible and what's possible today. Because some of the groups I work with, what they could do last week, they can't do this week for all sorts of reasons. So, and especially when...

Sarah (03:56.91)

Yeah, and that's it. And it's, and I think, go on, I was going to say, I think in all of us, there is an instinct, there is an innate sense of rhythm, sense of movement, but we, we kind of move in much stricter kind of formats and like you say, people kind of, they've forgotten how to move their bodies, all their conscious of moving their bodies. And I think it's something that, you know, when you're on your own and the music comes on, you have a little bit of a bop around, but actually what you do is bring that out in a much more creative and, I want to use the word fulfilling, but I think it is the way it's fulfilling, isn't it? Because you, yeah, yeah.

Fiona Winter (04:37.506)

I think you're right. Every individual is doing in my sessions, whether it's, you know, whether that's a dance fitness sort of session or something outside, they're doing it their way and I'm bringing autonomy to that. And if you think how we brought up in the school system, you know, the teachers are always right, then your college and the lecturers are always right. And you're always having your work assessed and someone's telling you if it's okay. And that actually, you know, goes into fitness classes, sports training. And so, to allow people that opportunity to sense, is this okay for me? And it doesn't have to be okay for me just because it's okay for someone else. And then of course, when you're outside, there's that whole thing of, oh my goodness, people might be watching. And it's very interesting to watch how quickly people don't start to care whether anybody's watching or not, especially when they're really feeling the benefit.

Sarah (05:30.926)

Yeah, you're talking to somebody who has been known to skip the entire length of the Roald Dahl class in Cardiff Bay. Just sheer fun of it because it was a lovely day. And you know what, I think after a while you don't really care. So what actually inspired you to take people outdoors, to start taking people outside?

Fiona Winter (05:49.41)

It's two strands. I've always benefited from being outdoors ever since I've started gardening, which I probably did in my forties and I'm now in my mid sixties. So I've always enjoyed that. And then when COVID came along, like pretty much everybody else in the industry of activity movement, dance, fitness, I went online and then I started to see people using the silent disco headsets. And what I saw was they would take their class outside stand in a circle, stand in rows in one spot and do the class. And I thought, well, you know, that's great, but I'm sure we could get way more creative with it. What if we had a different view for every track of music? What if in fact, some of the movement was walking from one place to another? So I started to sketch out an idea of what I wanted to do. And I called it Move in Nature, the very first project I did. And I happened to contact my local Arts Development team who I worked with quite a lot. I've always sort of straddled arts and health with the work that I do. You know, I can wear either hat and it's usually the same work. It just depends how they want to view it. But I happened to ring them up on the day that they'd been basically instructed to get people outside. And so they were very keen to help me set up the project. So went off, purchased 20 headsets and took a class outside.

But right from the beginning, I wanted people to connect to the place that they were in. And then of course, as soon as you're outside, you're connecting to the weather. You're connecting to what you can see. You're not in four walls. You're not in front of a mirror. You haven't necessarily got the instructor in front of you. And over the first few months, I started to develop the project and explore different ways of bringing the movement because I didn't just want to do a movement exercise class outside. I wanted people to explore mindful movements, but also elements of forest bathing and the connecting with nature. And of course, as soon as you're outside, there's just so much else to see, but having the headset on allows me literally to offer invitations into people's ears. So they actually get a much better experience of a high quality sound.

So the music, rather than being just something that's background, it's something that's enhancing the experience. So that's how I first got into it. And I was really lucky that the project for the first six months went really, really well. And then actually had a year of funding to literally do one session a week for a whole year. Yeah. So other things grew out of that.

Sarah (08:32.878)

What sort of challenges did you face with it? Because I mean, obviously, the headset's great and everything, but were there other challenges that came up?

Fiona Winter (08:41.762)

Yeah, I mean if you talk about a risk assessment that as a teacher you're always doing in a room then take people outside. You've got a lot of different risks. I mean luckily, you know, we both have that background with working with walking projects. So that was sort of common sense to me. I already had that background of training others. But there was a different element to it because I was actually asking people to move on uneven ground, not just walk on it, but dance on it and where were the right spaces to do that? And if I'm taking up people up steps in a park, then some people might be very happy going up a step. But as you and I will know from our work with different target groups, not every knee wants to go down a step. So I was literally having to think of routes that would accommodate as many people as I could. I didn't want to make it inaccessible. And I actually started to get a lot of people who really hadn't done much movement at all. They almost were coming for what they saw as a walk. And I think one of the biggest challenges was, you know, I could have just walked from a start point to a viewpoint and it would have taken me 10 minutes, but add in the sort of target groups I'm working with and the fact that people are looking at leaves and inspecting the moss on the ground and we want to stand and look around. I actually had to change a lot of my timings.

So the walks necessarily aren't fast, but they're still following a structure of a typical fitness class with a warm -up, a conditioning phase in the center and relaxation at the end. Technically, the actual silent headsets are really simple to use. They're quite simple to instruct people to use. Really haven't had any difficulties with that. I think other challenges really are the weather.

You know, there would be plenty of people who wouldn't think to go out in the rain. And I think in sort of three years, I've only ever canceled about three classes for inclement weather. We've gone out in the rain. We've gone out, we've had hail and a rainbow in one session. But actually once people realize, you know, they've been out in a bit of drizzle and they think, well, actually that was quite nice. I feel better now I've come back. They'll take the chance and they'll come out again.

Sarah (10:53.838)

It's that connection with nature. But it's, the rain is part of nature, isn't it? Yeah. And we, you know, I'm not going to go too much into like what we're made of, but if you actually break everything down as the elements in our bodies, you know, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, whatever, carbon, there's the same elements in nature and in the weather and everything. And actually being able to link in with the rain, it's a great feeling. And like everybody says, there's no such thing as the wrong weather for being outside, it's just the wrong clothing. And it is, that's it.

Fiona Winter (11:35.938)

the wrong clothes. Yeah, I actually talk a lot about the elements, you know, because you've got the element of fire from the sun, but also if you've heated up yourself or you literally feel a fire in your belly, you know, there's that element there, there's air on the skin, as well as the breath that we're taking in. There's the grounding, the landing on the ground through our feet, having a stable base, but then also feeling the different textures. And then as you say, the rain on our skin, the moisture in our mouth and just knowing that we're made up of a high percentage of water. So yeah, the elements and the seasons actually come in very strongly to the work that I do.

Sarah (12:13.102)

The seasons is something I feel really quite passionate about because I think we again, because of modern life, the way it is, technology, electricity, everything, you know, great, wonderful things, don't get me wrong, but we've kind of lost that real connection with the seasons, with the food from each season. You know, if you think even back sort of 50, 60 years, a lot of people grew their own food. So you had what was in season.

And it's almost like what's in season is right for your digestion, for your gut, for your system, for your energy needs. You know, if you think about it, the different colors of the season. So it must be lovely to be out there in different seasons and see how nature changes, but still says the same, but it changes.

Fiona Winter (12:49.474)

Yes. And I think that's a massive benefit of the year program that I did is we were in the same venue. So I did have a couple of slightly different walks, but week after week, people were coming back to the same piece of ground, the same trees and noticing the small subtle differences. And that was revelationary for some people. And I also found that on every walk we did, different people spotted different things.

Sarah (13:08.974)

Fiona Winter (13:29.154)

So at the end of every walk, we have an opportunity to feedback if we want to, maybe something we notice, something we're taking away with us, something that happened. And I've been amazed at how many different things, you know, somebody would say, oh, I saw mushrooms. It's like, oh, I'm going to look for those next week. So yeah, that chance to closely observe week by week, season by season was quite new for a lot of people.

Sarah (13:56.91)

It's, and it is, it's, I think we just take the outdoors, we take nature for granted, we take the seasons for granted because our lives don't change. Whereas they would have done in the, you know, going back many years, we would have been in a lot more in the winter and out a lot more in the summer. And it's just so nice to kind of reintroduce people to that, to that aspect of who we are, we are creatures that live in nature and I just think and it's I was just thinking the other day it sounds really daft but I do a lot of hiking in in Colorado where obviously there's a lot of the mountains and it's the tree line the tree line goes up so far and then it's like yeah no not going up there any further but there's always one tree that's a little bit further up which is like I'm up here and it's almost like nature's you know it's almost like these things are having a bit of a laugh and it's because there's there'll always be something that is is where it shouldn't be or there'll be a tree growing in a place that you think how on earth and it's just like that yeah see I can do this and it's but you start to notice it you start to get in tune with things like that and I just think it's just incredible isn't it what you start to notice when you start looking.

Fiona Winter (15:01.282)

Yeah. I've actually worked quite a lot in collaboration with people who work with predominantly women looking at journaling and particularly connected with perimenopause, menopause, post menopause, but also the menstrual cycle. So a lot of the work around that actually alludes to spring, summer, autumn, winter. That could be your menstrual cycle, but it also might be your cycle as a woman from mother, maiden, queen, crone. So I've actually done quite a lot of work around that working with other people. So providing, for instance, a playlist that might be very spring -like and providing prompts for people about how they might have felt when they were in the spring in their lives. And actually working with women of all ages so that the 40 year olds have a chance to talk to the 50 year olds and the 50 year olds, the 60 year olds. So it's kind of bringing those cycles in as well. And that knowing that after winter, spring will come again. So I'm technically, post menopause and in my second spring, as it's often called. So it's been fascinating to make those links. And then I think the other thing you mentioned was, you know, being in the sunlight, seeing how that differs. So for instance, I'm going out tonight to actually take people out in the dark, but we're having to start at half past eight. Whereas last month we started at half past seven and a few months ago we could have started at half past six and you know, next month we'll probably start at nine just because of the light changing in the day. So that's another aspect people have noticed. But for me, if I can just mention the other project that's come out of this is Dancing in the Dark. So I think I...

Sarah (16:47.246)

Yeah, I love the sound of it.

Fiona Winter (16:51.298)

Well, we do have very small LED torches, powerful but light, and that's probably all we need. And I do make sure we're extra safe on the route that we take. But of course, how many women would go out and be active in a park in the dark? I mean, not a lot would go out on their own in the day, but certainly not in the dark. It's not something you would do away from street lights, away from house lights. So I'm taking 26, I think, people out tonight.

And I first did it on Halloween. I thought, how that might be quite fun to do that for Halloween. And then winter solstice came up, maybe we'll do it for that. And now I've been doing it for over two years. Every month, we usually tie in with the full moon, the night of or the night before or after. And of course the moon doesn't always help because the clouds are often covering. But as I say, the moon is always there. We just might not see it.

But it's been an absolute revelation to see people feel so empowered to be out in the darkness. And again, another level of not being observed by people, not being seen.

Sarah (17:56.462)

Yeah, but it's also as women, I think we have a very specific connection to the moon, don't we? And, you know, it's like you say, you know, you can see the moon or you can't see it, but it's still there. So the energies are there. And I think for women to be able to go out with a full moon and just everything that that kind of gives you is just what an amazing experience for people. It just sounds Brilliant.

Fiona Winter (18:08.962)

Of course. Yeah. And our cycles. Yeah.

And I think we've also normalized in the couple of parks that I work in, we've normalized groups of women dancing outside. You know, it's people who walk their dog on a Sunday morning are used to seeing us. And it's like, oh, it's those women again with the headsets. And I think that's fabulous because, you know, women do need to be seen, we need to take up our space and we have a right to be out moving.

Sarah (18:30.19)

I think it really does.

Obviously, like you say, there's safety in numbers, but there's also confidence in numbers, isn't there? And there's connection in numbers. And those are two things that I think a lot of women miss. They've kind of let it go because they're doing other things. And it's that connection and that confidence in numbers that sometimes just, even if it's not somebody you'd meet up for a coffee afterwards, it's just being around people, that social connection is something.

Fiona Winter (19:14.946)

Yeah. And I think it's happened with this group. We've got quite a lot of people who've got some health challenges. For instance, I'm taking someone out tonight who had a stroke nine months ago, who'd walked with me before, and they're now ready to come back. I've got someone else who's undergoing cancer treatment. I've got a couple of people in their eighties. So the building of that confidence that this is something that they can do, but also that connection. And it's not as you say, it's not come because they're necessarily going out for coffee afterwards, but actually it's a shared experience that they've had. And that's why at the end of every walk, we always have a few moments to share. It's not compulsory. No one has to share. But it's just that opportunity of speaking out loud, something that's happened or that you've noticed. And knowing that that's valid and other people will hear that and maybe have had the same experience themselves.

So a lot of connection and confidence has come out of both projects, actually.

Sarah (20:28.11)

And it sounds like as well, it's not just kind of like the physical safety of going out in a group, but it's also that emotional safety of knowing that you can share or you can not share. It's a safe and important plan.

Fiona Winter (20:40.802)

Yeah. And I think that's where it's, it differs quite a lot from say the walking projects that both of us have been linked to in the training of others and the development of that. I'm holding quite a tender space for people when you add music in, and particularly if you're not just using the regular type of fitness music, which is a beat and it doesn't really matter what it is as long as the beats there. I'm actually using very different music than I would have used in other classes. So I'm looking for atmospheric music that picks up on the seasons. I'm using spoken word. I'm using a lot of instrumental music. So it almost taps into the emotions much quicker. And therefore it's not unknown for people to say, gosh, I felt really emotional when that track came on. And then as the person holding that space, I need to be able to hold that for people to let them know that that's quite normal and it's okay. And so it is a little bit different than perhaps a fitness instructor taking people out. 

So I think my whole background in dance has really, and the work that I do in the arts has really, really helped with that because I understand that emotional connection to the music choices and how that might affect the session. So I think I probably spend way more time organizing a playlist than anything else. I probably spent two hours yesterday and that was working with a lot of music I already knew to get the perfect playlist for What is the Pink Moon?

Sarah (22:18.766)

Yes, and it's things like that that I think it's that the additional benefits, you know, we've talked about some of the benefits that people feel, but what other benefits have you noticed or have people told you that they're experiencing?

Fiona Winter (22:34.274)

Well, if we just look at the physical mobility, huge, particularly for people who haven't really been walking very much before, but also, you know, when you're walking, you're not necessarily using upper body, whereas of inviting people to move and dance, even if it's very, very simple. So occasionally I might ask people to follow me if they want to. So that we're using upper body more cardiovascular endurance, just being out for longer. You know, we're often going up in clients not very steep, but for some people they're more than they would do normally. Massive mental health benefits. Just the, you know, saying, I feel so much better than I did when I came out. I had a, you know, a not so great day, but now that I've forgotten about that, or the kids were playing up and, but it all feels better now. 

Um, yeah. And, and quite deep actually, I think because of the connection with music and because when we're particularly when we're walking for the full moon, we might talk about what's happened in the last four weeks, what can you leave behind and let go of, and what do you want to look forward to, to the next four weeks. So we're adding in the cycle into what's gone, what was good, what wasn't so good, and what are we looking forward to. And I think it's great being in the moment, but it's also good to reflect. So that's something we do very naturally every four weeks when we're working with the full moon cycle.

Sarah (24:01.198)

And those of you that aren't necessarily into sort of the moon and what, but you know, the full moon is a time to release. Time to release, I was going to say, but it could be anything. I was the new moon is a time for sort of new hopes, new thoughts, but you kind of I'm a great believer that decluttering isn't just about getting rid of these books or those clothes. It's about decluttering thoughts. It's about decluttering grudges that we're holding onto from the past. It's letting go of some of the emotional stuff that we carry around us that fills our space. And actually we need to release that in order for new things to come in because it's like any space, isn't it? You can't just keep filling it full of things. You've got to let some stuff go. And it's not always easy.

Fiona Winter (24:47.522)

People tap into that at all levels. I mean, I'm acutely aware that some people just want to come out and move and they don't necessarily think about the moon, but they did come to me four weeks ago and they will come to me again in four weeks. So there's a cycle there for them anyway, regardless of whether they connect that to the moon. And it also might be that they noticing that they are holding stress from what's going on in their body and we can physically release that by shaking, by moving, by loosening. And so they notice, you know, as they're coming down the hill and we're coming back, I might say, what have you let go of? It might be tension in the shoulders. It might be a knot in the stomach. So it doesn't matter to me as the instructor, whether people are necessarily tapping into emotions or thought patterns. They might just be tapping into, God, my shoulders feel so much better. Now I've moved. I'm coming back down the hill.

Sarah (25:43.342)

That's it, isn't it? There's a big focus on fitness and exercise and things like that. But for some people, just simple basic movements are much more beneficial because they actually target a much kind of more subtle.

I think what I want to say is in that you say your shoulders drop and actually when you've dropped your shoulders when the tension's gone, you move much more freely. So sometimes it's those small movements that lead into bigger differences.

Fiona Winter (26:20.994)

And you and I both know that we can have people come into a class fit or unfit, but by looking at the body, you can pretty much tell their story. You know, once people are past 40 plus, their life story shows in their body and they might be fit, but it might still show and they might be unfit and it still shows. So actually what we're doing for me helps release a lot of postural tension and postural habits that have come through what life might have thrown at people rather than whether they've been exercising or not. And I think another thing that I've seen is people are just much more keen to do more because suddenly they've had an experience which has been pleasant. It's not been painful. It's been accessible. They've achieved something. So actually they bring their friend back to the park another day of the week and do another walk. I've actually got two people tonight who are on holiday who have requested the playlist because they're going out for a walk under the moon on their holiday.

Sarah (26:30.158)

Yeah, that's it.

Fiona Winter (26:50.242)

And so they will feel a bit part of it.

Sarah (27:21.358)

And this is it, this is what we want though, we want activity to be accessible to people. Because it's like you say, I can see people walking into classes and there have been times where I've wanted to say, look, you know what, you've got so much tension in you at the moment, there's really no point in you doing this class because that tension is going to override your movement quality.

And it's like with things like yoga you start with relaxation, whereas everything else we finish with relaxation, but actually starting with relaxing movements and really tapping into your body and what feels where actually is so important, isn't it? Because it releases tension. So just starting to walk outside, you'll feel, we know with forest bathing, we know that it...

it has an impact on the vagus nerve, on our parasympathetic nervous system, it calms us down. So just starting to walk outside provides the relaxation that then means that the rest of your body will go, oh, okay, yeah, I get this.

Fiona Winter (28:21.922)

I think that's where I bring in the mindfulness and the somatic movement. So the first couple of tracks of music that we're playing are me suggesting that they notice the ground under their feet. They listen to the sound of their feet. And actually we slow down massively right at the beginning. So people get the chance to notice, oh my goodness, have I hurried through my entire day? Am I still trying to hurry? I notice how many people have their hands in their pockets which totally changes the posture on the shoulder. So it's like, um, I invite you to let your arms hang, let them swing naturally, just let them hang as you walk and see what happens and simple things like getting them to look, um, at eye level and then slightly above. So they're actually moving their head from left to right, from up and down. Whereas, you know, you and I know if we're in front of a computer all day, it's so easy to fix the head, neck and shoulders.

So all of those things come into my first sort of 10 minutes really, starting to notice the breath, starting to notice what temperature you are and then how those things change. So constantly coming back to those things at different points in the session so that they're becoming, you know, have a little bit more autonomy about what they notice about their own body and what they're aware of. So awareness, once we have awareness, we can make choices.

If we haven't got awareness, we can't make a choice. But I think a lot of people, once they've got an awareness, they will make a judgment. So one of the things I teach, whether it's in my coaching or any of my work is that there's an acceptance stage. We might be aware of something, gosh, I'm holding a lot of tension in my shoulders today, but there needs to be an acceptance rather than a judgment about that. And then we can make a choice. And the choice might be take my hands out of pockets let my arms dangle or to shake my hands out, you know, whatever works in that moment. So awareness, acceptance and choice, big part of what I'm teaching throughout all my work really.

Sarah (30:28.75)

It sounds amazing and one of the things that's really coming through, this isn't just about you kind of inspiring other people. It sounds like there's an awful lot going on with you. So the project is obviously inspired and expanded your skills and creativity. So tell us a little bit more about that because I know when I go for a long hike in beautiful surroundings, my creativity is just sparked. So tell us a little bit more about how this is inspiring you.

Fiona Winter (30:57.058)

I think, as I said before, it's massively expanding my music choices. That reflects in my personal life as well as in my professional life. I too have noticed all of those different things with the seasons. I think it's made me as a gardener a bit more subtle with what I'm noticing as well rather than has my seed grown or not. I'm starting to get interested in permaculture about when I actually plant my seeds.

Also just that releasing of the creative, like taking the break off my creativity. Um, I think I mentioned before, you know, a lot of my prep time for tonight was yesterday creating a playlist. And what that allows me to do is be in the moment with the group that I'll have tonight. There'll be seven people who haven't met with me before, probably another seven or eight who've only been out a couple of times. So as a, as a spaceholder and a group leader, I need to be very in tune with what does that group need? And I think that's one of the things I've noticed about being inside. It almost expands my ability to connect with the music, the movement, and the people and the space. Yeah, I'm not really explaining it very well, but I've noticed a difference.

Sarah (32:15.854)

No, yeah, but it is, isn't it? There's something about being, being that moving in nature that just, just, it just, it's like it, it gives the brain a big drink of water and refreshes it. It's like hydration for the brain. And I know people drink water, but it's, it's kind of like, it's a nutrients, it's nourishment for the brain. And it really seems to get the brain going. Yeah, do you know what? And I know, let's face it, how many of us, there's a natural instinct, we go, do you know what, I need to go for a walk and clear my head when we're having a bad day. We know that going outside for a walk is good for us, but we don't necessarily do it as often as we should. And it's here, I've got a little dog, so we get out in all weathers. And we love it, you know, and I love it.

Fiona Winter (33:06.338)

And actually what sparked off in me, I was just thinking if I was teaching this session indoors and had been once a month for two years, as a teacher, I probably would have got a bit bored with it. And I'm not the slightest bit bored with it because every month is different weather, it's different things to look at. We're in a different season. So it's really given me that excitement and interest. And I've been teaching for over 40 years.

So I know you'll know that feeling Sarah that sometimes we could have done things a lot of times, but this has really given me that burst of impetus. And people say to me, oh, don't you want to go to a different place and walk there? I'm like, well, yes, that's nice, but actually it's the repetition of the same place in the different seasons and the different weathers that's actually been really interesting.

Sarah (33:42.446)

It might be the same past, but the surroundings are different every time, aren't they? Even week two. Yeah, and that's just amazing. How do you see the project developing in the future? Because it just sounds like such an amazing experience for people.

Fiona Winter (34:05.506)

And I'm different every time and the group are different every time.

Well, I think as with anything, funding is often difficult and the people who need this the most are not necessarily the ones who can pay to do it. So I'm always looking to tap into health projects, health and arts projects, wellness projects. But actually I would love to train more teachers to do this because I think there's a gap. I think there's plenty of fitness people and there's plenty of dance people who have a lot of the skills but don't necessarily have the other parts. They're not used to working outside, or maybe they're not used to working with groups who have lower levels of fitness. So I think I'm in quite a unique position, both my teacher training background, but also the skills that cross over the walking projects, the dance and the fitness. And I would love to be able to get some teacher training off the ground. A short weekend training would be enough.

But it would mean people could hit the ground running rather than having to work out. A dance teacher would never have probably done a risk assessment, possibly even indoors, let alone outdoors. And not every fitness person is used to working out in nature or looking at using different music, for instance, or spoken words.

Sarah (35:16.942)

Yes or being a little bit more flexible. Yeah. Yeah. Or going with the flow and things. It sounds like, I mean, definitely be something I'd be interested in. And I think it's probably a few other people I know that would love to do something like this because, you know, we...

Fiona Winter (35:37.602)

So I'm also at that stage of my career where I'm mentoring people and passing on. So now is the time to do those things. Even though I've been involved in teacher training for a long time, you know, I don't want these skills to go. But it would be, it would be really helpful for people who want to hit the ground running with a session that actually was effective right from the beginning and pass on what I've learned.

Sarah (35:48.91)

Yeah, well, it's definitely something I think, you know, I'll make sure that all your details are in the information for the podcast. But I think you've given me a YouTube link to the moving nature experience. But where can people find you if they want to?

Fiona Winter (36:20.386)

Well, I have a website which is my name, www.fionawinter.com and I'm also Fiona Winter on Facebook or Move in Nature - I think to be technically correct, it's energy moves in nature, because energy moves is also a name that I work with. So they can find me there.

Sarah (36:41.742)

So what's your, what would be then a final message to everybody about being naturally active? And this is what I'm calling it, is naturally active because we're active in a more natural sense in the natural environment, but also in a more fluid, natural movement kind of way. What's your?

Fiona Winter (37:05.378)

I would say be curious about your surroundings. Take time, not every walk has to be fast. 

And that also, what I've noticed is when people slow their pace down, they're actually more willing to go up different terrain and go up elevations because they're going at a pace that feels okay for them. And to turn around and look back at where you've been in all senses of the world. So tonight we'll be going up a hill and at one point I'll invite everybody to stop and have a look because the sky will be different behind you than it will be in front of you. Just as life in your past is different from life in your future. So be curious.

Sarah (37:47.246)

It is. And even the same journey, if you walk along a path and you walk back the same path, it's a completely different perspective, isn't it? And it's so important to notice, I think, is something, isn't it?

Fiona Winter (38:00.738)

Notice, be curious, enjoy it all. That's what kids do, isn't it? It's what we said right at the beginning. That's what kids do. They're curious. What's this?

Sarah (38:06.51)

Yeah, they notice everything. Yeah, you just move something slightly. It's like, move that and things. But we kind of, yeah. Oh, it's brilliant.

Fiona Winter (38:12.354)

And it's not too late, you know, my 80 year olds come along.

Sarah (38:21.87)

Oh, it just sounds amazing. Just thank you so much for coming on to talk about this. It's like everybody knows that I'm passionate about, you know, accessible movement, but also getting people outside into nature, particularly if people, like you've said, are nervous about doing it on their own or aren't quite sure if they're on their own. So being able to come out in a group and just be guided initially and then start to find their own way, and go out with other people and go out on their own maybe. It's just so important, isn't it? It's such an important project. We definitely are, you know, we need to, you know, there's the old saying, more people more out to more often, but more outside as well. And it's just, you know, all ages, let's get outside and be active because it isn't just the movement, it is that connection with nature and all the good stuff that comes with it. It's brilliant isn't it? And they are just beautiful aren't they? And I don't care all these people post photos they're never ever the same on a photograph. You can't you can't photograph a lot of things. Yeah you need to see it like wild garlic at the moment as well for anyone who's interested in that it's just the smell of it is just intense. But Fiona thank you so much for coming along it's been really interesting and I know it's something that...

Fiona Winter (38:54.53)

Yeah, we're singing from the same hymn book, Sarah.

And right now, the blue bells are out. You need the smell of it.

Sarah (39:46.51)

There are probably a few fitnessy people out there who are thinking, gosh, actually, that's something I'd really like to get into. So I will make sure your details are there and anybody who wants to contact Fiona, contact her directly or through me. So thank you very much again. It's been a pleasure. You've been listening to Creating Actual Lives with me, Sarah Bolitho and my guest this week, Fiona Winter. And I have a feeling you'll come back on and talk a bit more about nature and things like that as well. 

Fiona Winter (40:01.794)

Thank you for inviting me, Sarah.

Sarah (40:15.758)

Watch this space for the future everybody.