052 Student Mental Health Seona McKenzie and Julie Hughes

This episode is an important one for both those going to university, and also for parents who want to support their children in thriving while away from home, especially for the first time. I am talking to  Julie Hughes and Seona Mackenzie about student mental health.

In this episode we discuss: 

• the importance of supporting students' mental health, especially during the transition to university life. 
• Common issues among first-year students 
• The challenges of independent living
• How sport and physical activity play a crucial role in supporting mental health by providing a distraction, promoting social connections, and improving overall well-being
• The support services available to students
• 
  

About Julie: 

Julie has worked at University of Glasgow Sport for nearly 20 years and oversees the Active Lifestyles Team at UofG Sport which covers activity provision within the two centres (Stevenson Building And Garscube Sports Complex).  Julie and her team of wellbeing coordinators manage a wide range of group exercise classes and gym training support and provide opportunities across the university campus as part of UofG Sports' dedication to supporting and improving staff and student wellbeing.

About Seona:
Seona is responsible for a wide range of health-related activities including pregnancy consultation and weight-wise at the University of Strathclyde Glasgow.   She links with other health-related agencies across the University and is responsible for the Exercise Referral Scheme as well as teaching a wide variety of group exercise classes. She is also a fully qualified Level 3 Personal Trainer and REPS Level 4 Exercise Specialist. Seona enjoys cycling, weight training and martial arts.

Student Minds:  https://www.studentminds.org.uk/

University mental health day https://www.studentminds.org.uk/universitymentalhealthday 

University of Glasgow Sport:  https://www.gla.ac.uk/myglasgow/sport/

University of Strathclyde sport: https://www.strath.ac.uk/strathclydesport/

About Sarah:
Sarah Bolitho helps fitness and health professionals develop their careers and grow their businesses by providing specialist training in teaching, assessing, and internal quality assurance, together with qualifications in exercise referral and disability.   

With over 30 years in the health-related fitness and physical activity fields, Sarah has a wealth of experience and knowledge.  She has worked in most roles in the industry from group exercise to personal training but specialised in working with specialist populations.  For over 25 years Sarah has trained fitness and health professionals to work with clients with long-term conditions, mental health issues, disabilities, older adults and pre/post-natal women.  She has a post-graduate diploma in exercise and health behaviour and extensive training in supporting behaviour change.  She has worked with awarding organisations to develop qualifications and training and with accreditation bodies

For more about the training and support Sarah offers, visit www.sarahbolitho.com or contact her at admin@sarahbolitho.com.

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Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sarahbolitho

Transcript

Sarah (00:02.326)

Hello and welcome to this episode of Creating Active Lives of me, Sarah Bolitho, and my two guests this week, Julie Hughes and Seona Mackenzie. We are talking about student mental health and this episode is actually going out on student mental health day, so very, very timely. This is an important area, not just for people who are going to university, who are going to be away from home for the very first time, but also for parents who might be a bit nervous about their kids flying the nest and being on their own and worrying.

So just briefly to introduce my guest, Julie has worked at University of Glasgow Sport for nearly 20 years, and she oversees the Active Lifestyles team. And it covers activity provision within the two main centres, Stephenson Building and Garskoop Sports Complex in Glasgow. Julie will tell us a little bit more about herself. We also have Seona, who's the Active Health Manager at Strathclyde Sport, University of Strathclyde in Glasgow. So...

Seona McKenzie (00:52.618)

Thank you.

julie (00:55.343)

Thank you.

Sarah (01:00.002)

They're not rivals, as you might think, even though they're from universities in Glasgow, probably in Essex, which there's a basketball or volleyball game going on. But Seona graduated from Glasgow University with a Physiology and Sports Science degree and went on to complete a Masters in Children's Physical Activity levels at the University of Strathclyde. She's set up the first GP referral scheme in Scotland, which is brilliant, and returned to Strathclyde where her remit is supporting students’ physical and mental health through activity. So again, Seona will tell us a little bit more about herself, but both of them have a really, really key role in supporting students mental health at universities. So, Julie, I'm going to come to you first, just tell us a little bit about what that involves.

julie (01:45.705)

So for us being a sport department, we're deemed as almost a service within the university as well. So what can we provide and offer to support our students' mental health and mental wellbeing? I think years ago, if you're talking 10, 15 years ago, that wasn't necessarily the case. But now, you know, sport and physical activity is huge. And there's a real understanding and realisation how big a part sport and physical activity can play and can help and it's just now navigating ourselves through that to see what we can do to help and do our best to make things better.

Sarah (02:27.842)

And it is so important, isn't it? We all know how much better we feel when we do something physically active. And I think a lot of students get bogged down in study, particularly second and third years. And it's making sure that they've got that balance, isn't it? Shena, how about you?

Seona McKenzie (02:47.485)

Yeah, so I think very similar to Julie, you know, I think, you know, over the years sport was seen more as just a recreational exercise place that people went to, whereas now I think there is a lot more realisation of the benefits it can give to your current and future sort of physical, mental, social as well, and emotional wellbeing also tied in together. And I think, you know, even things like getting a better job, getting a better degree, all of that, all has been shown to be proven by people that are active. And I think it just helps them manage their lifestyle a wee bit more. And we are seeing, again, you know, Julie's the same as myself here, that we are seeing across institutions that other areas of the university are recognizing what sport can do and how that can feed into supporting staff and students. I think although we are mainly talking about students, you know, Staff need to be supported to enable them to support students.

Sarah (03:48.85)

It is so important, isn't it? And supporting student mental health is absolutely vital because, as I said in the introduction, a lot of them are away from home for the first time. They may well be overseas, so they may well actually be in a completely different country. They may well be away from their friends and everything they've known. And this is, this is, I think, something that, you know, there's an excitement about going to university, about leaving home. But actually, there's also the negative side, which is suddenly you're on your own and you haven't got your mum or dad saying what's wrong, what's going on, or your mates that. So what sort of issues are common then within first year students? We'll start with first year students.

Seona McKenzie (04:34.853)

I think in terms of first year students you have got that isolation, loneliness, you know a lot of international students as well, there can be a lot of pressure, you know their families have paid large sums of money for them to come to the UK to study or to finish their degree, a lot of them English is not their first language, even just finances, not having a bank account and practical things like that, you can be quite prevalent.

And also I think just seasonal affective disorder for a lot of international students. They come here in September and Glasgow in September, October, you don't get much daylight and very quickly you end up in quite a dark winter. So that can be a problem. Food, the food that they eat is very different. So all of those things I think can affect them. And I think you do get, as you say that stress and anxiety level of the pressure of coming. It's this, like you say, it's a big excitement. I'm going to university and everyone expects it's gonna be amazing and it's gonna be great. I'm gonna do all these things. And then the reality can sometimes kick in and they're in a room either themselves or they're sharing accommodation with people they don't like, which again can be another issue or people that are just very different to them. So I think that sort of isolation, loneliness, just not having a sense of belonging. They've maybe come from quite a good support network and all of a sudden they're out on their own. And I think that they are the sort of key issues that come, certainly for first year students, I think, when they arrive in university.

Sarah (06:18.338)

Do you think as well, Julie, I'll come to you for this one, but do you think as well the fact that, particularly within the UK, which is the education system I'm familiar with, certainly up to GCSEs and then with A-levels, it's a very structured approach. It's very staff led if you say, this is what you've got to do, this is when you're gonna do it, why haven't you turned up, text goes to your parents, so-and-so is missing from school today, where are they? And things like that. It's a very contained environment for them. Do you think that the fact suddenly at university, they're responsible for turning up and if they don't turn up, nobody really, nobody texts your parents to say where they are. Do you think that suddenly having to take responsibility for their learning, for everything they're doing, as well as cooking, eating and things like that contributes?

julie (07:08.349)

Absolutely, because the learning is completely different from school to university and like you see we're, we kind of have awareness of the UK systems and we're obviously slightly different from England and Scotland so we've got a slight difference there. But then as Seona touched on international students, I don't have a good awareness of their education systems but you know you are coming from a structured, you know, week, structured day and like you say you have you know the school ping the messages to the parents to say you haven't been in and the reality is you are kind of you know you are on your own all of a sudden and you have to then you know find I think what's interesting with this is well not only the learning as you might be coming from a small town or a small you know village and then if you take Glasgow or Strathclyde for example you've got this you know huge city to navigate yourself with, also get yourself into that new learning, new understanding. And the lecturers are there to help them learn and understand, but there's so much pressure on the person as an individual to be taking that information in and we all learn differently as well. And if you're not sure how you learn  where do they get the support on how to learn and again going back to you know if English isn't your first language you also have that challenge there too. It's huge and I think even on to that you probably you know the student might not recognize that that's the learning that's new that's causing you know a bit of stress and anxiety because there might also be the homesickness there as well and if they've never experienced that before they might not even or they might be embarrassed to even say they're homesick. So if all just all the if all these little things you know, kind of everything that we've talked about, it's all like, all these add up and it just becomes a cycle and a circle and not really understanding. You're trying to learn, you know there's pressure on you to learn, there might be, like Seona said, pressure from the parents but there also may be pressure on you too because you've maybe put an expectation on yourself. I think also as well, you know, the subjects that you're picking.

You know, 18 is quite young nowadays to be deciding what you want to do as a career, whereas years ago, again, that was just how we did it and what was the next stage. Whereas maybe, you know, the opportunity to kind of find out about universities or how that learning is or, you know, showcasing to the six years what learning is going to be like at universities, maybe a gap we are we need to address a little bit more. But, you know, that's difficult.

Sarah (09:43.915)

Yeah. But it's all the other skills as well, isn't it? That, you know, looking back as adults, you kind of have, you've developed a lot of skills, like shopping, like planning meals, managing money. I mean, there must be a lot of students who run out of money quite quickly because they have no idea how to budget. And they've just suddenly, they've got all this money at their fingertips and it's like, oh, buy this, buy this, buy this. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, it's all gone now. What am I gonna buy food with?  Add in because they don't necessarily want to go back to their parents and say I've run out of money but equally parents would probably you know be willing to help them but it's there's a lot of life skills I think that you need that you don't know you haven't got until you're actually in the situation aren't there so Seona what do you think I mean do you think a lot of students are coming into university kind of really unprepared for living independently?

Seona McKenzie (10:46.945)

Yeah, and I think that's been massively exaggerated post-COVID. You know, you look at the generation are coming into universities now, you know, during the time where they were maybe had a bit more freedom while they were still at home, you know, they were maybe going out experiencing new sort of things in the safety network of their friend group as well. And I think, you know, when you're seeing students come to university now, that experimentation is maybe happening at university.

So you've got that aspect of it. I think, you know, we see people all the time who just don't know, like you say, how to shop, how to cook basic meals. So they go one of two ways. They either live in carryouts or they sometimes stop eating. And eating disorders is a massive issue in university and is rising. And we've all heard in the news over recent years about the rise of eating disorders in even younger children, even pre-teen, teenage years. And then we are now seeing that transition into the universities. And I think that the challenge as well with universities is students that come with pre-existing mental health conditions have basically signed off from the children's services. And then there's a massive weight to get into adult services, and especially if they're moving homes, they're moving health board. So there can be this big gap where they've had full support.

They've then gone through one of the biggest changes they'll come across in life. They're isolated. There's all these other pressures and they've got no other support. And that is a challenge. And the other challenge as well is that they are adults and there's a very different way that we can approach supporting adults as we approach children, because they are deemed competent adults and in charge and responsible for their own decisions. So there's not as many things that can be done necessarily to help support them. They need to almost ask for that help and accept that help.

Sarah (12:53.07)

And that must be quite hard as well, particularly if they've been supported by parents to suddenly have to, they might not know how to ask for help or who to ask for help. They might not even realise they need the help, but just be spiralling down into a sense of inadequacy or failure and everything. So Julie, what about, I mean, we talked about first year, which is obviously a big shock to the system, but actually, you know, second, third, fourth year, whatever, there can be slightly different issues, can't there? Because all of a sudden, there's pressure to get the degree finished, to get the work done. Whereas, and that, there's a lot, there are different pressures, aren't there, in later years? Is that something you see?

julie (13:37.597)

Yeah definitely and I think it also depends on the degree that maybe they're doing as well. I think there's added pressures particularly around medics and vets. And I think as the kind of years go on there might even be a realisation, oh I didn't work as hard in first year and second year and you're almost trying to catch up on yourself and then that again additional pressure builds and builds and builds and how to then help them, you know, how to support that because they may have all the knowledge they are, it's just getting it out and putting it on the paper or for the exams, but again, exams have a different stress compared to, you know, the coursework. And if it's a very exam-based course or, you know, is it more, you know, written work where it's assessed throughout can help as well, or it can change depending on, you know, the person or the student.

for example, but yeah, I think it's interesting when we get to exam periods and what we see within the facilities and I don't know if Seona's the same, I would say there's a kind of almost a different atmosphere, there's a kind of change in atmosphere that comes in. Some of your regular students that attend may not attend during exam periods or they may attend even more. So it's interesting to see that change like we do track for, you different opportunities, different options during exam period, we call it exam de-stress, just so we're trying to, from a sport department side, offer additional sessions or different ways of helping the students through it. Yes, it's interesting as the students go through their career because you can see a real change. If you're teaching a class and your regular students come in, you can kind of almost sense the difference in the mood and you ca say I'm feeling a bit stressed and I'm sure Seona's had it as well in the classes. Sometimes some students will come up and just want to talk or a few you know burst out into tears because they kind of feel that space is safe and they can be open. You know yeah so I think first there is a difference from first year in terms of the overwhelm but that overwhelm can continue and I guess what would be interesting is in first year it'd be interesting to know if you were a first year and you found everything okay.

julie (16:05.761)

Did that, was that the same through second, third and fourth year or did it start from first year and it just wasn't picked up or you didn't have that awareness in yourself that the overwhelm was there?

Sarah (16:17.714)

It is interesting, isn't it? And I think it's something that will come on to parents and what parents can do. But, you know, parents might notice the difference in contact, the things that people talk about, maybe coming home more often, coming home less often, the opportunities there. But so how does sport, how does physical activity in sport help? This is where you both really, really focus your work. So how does it help? Why does it help? Seona, come to you first.

Seona McKenzie (16:46.337)

Oh, where do we start? Yeah, it is crucial. And when we say sport, I mean, yes, it might be playing competitive sport. It might be recreational sport. It might be going to a gym, going to an exercise class. It might be going in a walking route. When Julie and I talk about sport, that's the sort of group of activities that we're looking at. We're looking at everything across the board. And I think sport.

julie (16:47.929)

Yeah.

Seona McKenzie (17:13.705)

It acts as so many avenues, it can give a distraction from the stresses and strains of what's going on. And it can just the natural feel good chemicals just make you feel a little bit better. It takes you away from your course as well, I think. And some courses, I think they can be quite isolating, you know, that you maybe spend all of your time with just your classmates in that one discipline. And that can be quite narrowing. So I think, you know coming into the sports facilities or playing a sports team or using one of the other activities that are on offer on the campus, you can meet new people. So I think you then can develop your own sense of belonging, whatever that may be. So I think that's quite a critical thing. And I think it's just that social element, to be honest. Yes, you get the physical benefits, but they're almost secondary to the social benefits that you get from being active with other people. Even just look at Group X, the music. You know, you get that teacher, you build that relationship with your teacher, and it is a safe space, and you do quite often get people coming up and disclosing things that they maybe wouldn't go to student support services to disclose. And some for fear of the effect it might have on their progressing on their degree. You know, some, the influence of parents, other friends, as Julie said, embarrassment is quite often a key factor that students feel they don't want to disclose. And again, a lot of males, you know, maybe feeling that they don't want to disclose how they're feeling and that they're struggling with certain things. So I think sport can bring people together.

Sarah (18:57.898)

Yeah, and that's so important, isn't it? I know, because I worked at Cardiff Met School of Sport for a while and the sports facilities and everything they had are often, I mean, they're amazingly high standards and everything that's available is incredible. But it's, I think sometimes, yes, people love the fact that they can get to be active in these really, really amazing spaces. But you're right. It's that sense of belonging. It's that sense of being part of a group.

isn't it that's so important? Like you say whether it's a walking group or rugby or volleyball or whatever and I think that that's something that needs to be almost promoted before they go to university is the sense of clubs is here are some things that you can do here's the things you can join because I think we tend to go and they look at the accommodation they look at the facilities for their course but actually it's the extracurricular stuff that may well mean that think I can look at joining that and I just think it's so important isn't it just like just that like you say that stepping away from your degree for a while and coming back in.

Seona McKenzie (20:09.181)

Yeah, I think it's where you see perfectionism as a massive issue with a lot of students as well and sometimes you know libraries are maybe open 24 7 and then there's that feeling well if they're open I need to be there so just maybe having something else to do it gives you that broader experience of university and you make friends for life.

Sarah (20:22.935)

Yeah.  And activities, activities a bit of a leveler, isn't it? Because it doesn't matter if you're studying.

if you're studying the kind of law or if you're studying ice cube design, I mean there probably isn't a degree in ice cube design, but you know what I mean? It doesn't matter what you're studying, it's a real leveller, isn't it Julie? And I think that helps people as well, if they feel out of their depths a little bit, it's just sort of doing something where, hey, we're all in this game together, we're all chucking this ball around or hitting this thing over the net or running from here to there kind of we're all the same, we're all in the same boat isn't there? Do you think that encourages people to talk Julie?

julie (21:10.261)

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, and I think as well, I think it's when you when you get out of just your, you know, your course group and you mix with others and you start talking and how you're feeling, maybe how somebody else is feeling. And then you start to realise, actually, this is quite normal. And then it's that sense of, you know, somebody has feels the same. You talk about it a little bit more and then somebody else might join in that conversation, too. So, yeah, that sense of support, finding others that might feel the same.

And I think then you then realise that, you know, we're all about the same. And maybe someone then within that group might go, well, I've tried this and this helped me and, you know, it just kind of feeds on and that, that conversation becomes a little bit more organic, but it's just kind of, that's the people that start talking, but we've still got to then navigate how do we get to people who are, you know, not opening up and not talking or not necessarily opening up to, you know, us or you know, services, but do they know where else they can go for support if they need it? And some might have really good relationships with their parents and some might, so there may be people who have good connections, but it's just making sure that, you know, we can, all of us, collectively, you know, make sure that people know where to signpost if a conversation does get started up, so that people can go and seek help if they think that they need it.

Sarah (22:39.886)

I know from my experience and also from talking to you two quite a lot over the years that there is so much support available. Do you think, I mean do people know what support is available and how to access it or is that something that needs to be worked on maybe?

Seona McKenzie (22:57.201)

Yeah, I think that is the key. I think most institutions have an awful lot of support available there and sometimes we, because we're all deeply involved in it, you would be assume that everybody knows how to get it. One of the big projects that we've been working on over the last year within our student and campus support services, which is a group that basically has all student support services that feed into that, is developing a credit card that's got a QR code on it that takes you to a page where there's links to every support service on that. It's through all the screens across campus. So it's just kind of easily available that is a one stop shop where you can go there and say, right, okay, I need X, Y and Z. There's a wee bit of information about what the service does and how to get to the service, what the building looks like, who the people are. Because again, for some people, you know, depending on how they're feeling, walking in to a building, to a stranger, and asking for support is really, really challenging. So maybe if they've had that, they know the face they're gonna see when they go there, that can be useful. And I think as well, the other thing is it's not only knowing what's there and knowing how to access it, but there's also the streamlining of signposting from other support services, because sometimes students end up being sent to three different places before they actually get to the service that helps the actual root cause of what is going on. You know, they might be depressed, very anxious because they're not attending lectures because they're having to work, but they're having to work because they can't afford their rent. And you know, there's all these different things going on in the students' background, and some of them, they just send them to the counsellor, but what else could they do? What other practical steps could help? So certainly streamlining, I think, of signposting because no one wants to go and have to tell someone your story three, four, five times. You want to go to the person that can help you to start with and then take ownership yourself as well because it is, although yes we can give support but we also want to enable students to be able to make decisions and support themselves.

Sarah (24:57.538)

a much more holistic approach. Yeah, yeah. And it's but do you think I mean one thing you mentioned was you're like going to a different building and things like that. I mean, mostly it's not like a school where you've got the school and you've got this that you might have different campuses in completely different areas. And many, many different buildings on each campus and just navigating your way to a specific building that you need to be in might be really, really daunting for someone. It might be just you get lost and you can't find your way. And I think that almost needs to be more, you know, a central place. Everybody knows what the student union is, you know, maybe there's a maybe all support services should be there. So thinking then as a parent, what can parents do in advance to kind of support people going to university for the first time? Because I think there's probably stuff that we don't know we could do or we don't know we need to do. What would you say to parents listening and say, you know, right, this is what you need to do in order to support your little one off flying the nest? Julie.

julie (26:17.973)

Oh, it's a big question. I've got a few years to go till that happens for me, but I'm just thinking about it. How would I approach it? I think it's just finding out about the university and also, you know, just to touch on what Seona said, yeah, there's so much support and information there, but as a parent, maybe look into that as well and have that so you've got that information ready. Maybe just have conversations around about, you know, living, cost of living, how we're gonna manage, you know.

it is a different way of learning, have you thought about that? And maybe just depending on how the relationship is with the parent as well and the soon to be student, you know, looking through, you know, some websites like Student Minds, for example, is really useful. They give a load of tips and ideas. And just, I guess, it's kind of trying to understand from a, as a parent, you know, what do I think my child may struggle with?

And how can we have that conversation to get them to think because you want them to be self-sufficient, help them, you know, how they're gonna approach it, what they're gonna do, and just give them some ideas of what it might be like. Like Seona touched on earlier as well, about, you know, if they're gonna live in student accommodation, you might be living with people that you're, you know, you don't really get on with. What's the approach for that? What can you do? And just making sure that you've got good communication channels up and running, and as a parent, you know,

I'll be here for you, if there's something that's bugging you, just let me know and let's talk about it and see how we can resolve it. I think as well, just looking out, once they go to university, is looking out for changes in behaviour, and signs and again just having that awareness of what can I maybe do to help, where can I suggest to go to. They may talk to you openly, but if they don't talk to you openly, who do they talk to? You know they may speak an aunt or an uncle or a cousin or a brother or a sister so it may be kind of reaching out within your family network of who that best person is to speak to them to. I think if you've got other family members who've been to university, you know ask can you have a wee conversation and a chat and see how it goes but it's I think as a parent and I'm showing us got more experience of this is me at the moment but for me

Like I say, it's a few years down the line yet, and it'll be interesting.

Sarah (28:47.998)

Yeah. Do you think that, you know, really getting them to learn life skills, things like, you know, how to do their washing, how to budget for a meal, how to plan meals and things like that helps? Because I think it's something that it's very easy as a parent. You just get on with it. You just do it. But again, I think it's the sort of thing that can contribute to overwhelm, can't it? For for people when they're coming in is like, I don't know how to do this. And I don't know how much powder to put in the machine or where to put it or anything like that. And, you know, yeah, it's silly things like that, isn't it? But do you think as parents as well, it's maybe finding out about the sporting activities, not just necessarily at the university, but what else is going on around where they are?

julie (29:13.395)

100 percent.

Because there might be something that they want to do that the university doesn't offer. I know it's unlikely because you offer most types of activity, but do you think as a parent, just sort of finding out a little bit about what else is on offer can help? Because they say, oh, look, they do walking football. You've always wanted to give that a go. Do you think that sort of thing? Because we are talking predominantly about how activity helps, but I think it's, for a lot of kids, it's maybe gosh I'm a first year and there's all these guys have been playing rugby for the last three years at university and they're really good I won't be as good so I won't bother so it's kind of how do we overcome that? How do you get people new people to come in and into established groups?

Seona McKenzie (29:42.181)

I think it's a difficult one because I think we also need to remember their adults and we want to support them to make their own choices. You know, we've all been 18 and we thought we knew everything. You know, so I think there's an element of encouraging, encourage them, maybe not just when they go to university, maybe I'm talking about younger teens, to give them that confidence, I suppose, in themselves and empower them to start making their own decisions as they go through secondary. Because I think if we do it early on in secondary, like first and second year, then that prevents the overwhelming feeling. And, you know, at that age, you know, they don't want to be their parents suggesting you should be doing this or have you thought of this, how you try to do that. Because when we were that age, you know, we didn't want our parents doing that. So I think the parent role maybe comes in earlier on in secondary school to then hopefully get the individual when they are then going to university. You know, if they play a sport already, they probably are looking at what clubs are available. But I do also think there is a benefit to playing university sport rather than sport outside of the university as well. I think it brings something different. My son plays rugby and you know I think university rugby is very different to rugby outside and it's a great experience for him. So I think with the parents it's more about empowering them earlier on and I think also going back to kind of what we sort of said before is about not creating this huge big pressure of going to university. This should be a life experience and nowadays things are very different you know back you know years ago people did their degree, they went and worked in that degree. It's very different now. We talked about like fourth year students and it's very few fourth year students will do their degree, they go straight into the job in that degree. They'll really take time out, they'll go travelling, they'll work in other things. People change careers so many times now and quite often end up doing something that's totally unrelated to their degree and that's not a bad thing. So I think it's kind of helping them to understand that it is okay not to be okay.

julie (32:13.124)

Yeah.

Seona McKenzie (32:39.849)

The social media obviously works against that a lot of the time. I think that needs to be embedded much younger than the six year at school when they're transitioning into university.

Sarah (32:44.088)

I think it's preparing them for the whole experience, not just the academic, the learning, the specific degree, but it's really promoting everything at university that's going on so that they get a really big experience. Like you say, a lot of people won't go straight into a job, they might just be doing a university degree because they love learning. So I think, you know, promoting the fact, taking the pressure off the academic side of it, and saying, right, try everything, try things. If you love rugby, get into the rugby clubs. But if there's yoga, if there's walking, give that a go. You know, really, like you say, it's setting them up as teenagers to give things a go, isn't it? Because they may well find the one thing that thinks actually that helped me. And that's really important because presumably, it's not just team sports and rugby and football and that sort of stuff, is it? You've got many more activities on offer, haven't you?

Seona McKenzie (33:51.157)

And there'll be lots of activities that they maybe, for various reasons, maybe finances would never have a chance to try. Parachuting, you know, things like that. There's so many different clubs and all universities will have all their different clubs. And they might get a chance to try sports that they've never even heard of, never mind tried. So it's a great time to sort of broaden their experience and they might find a sport that they just fall in love with. And that continues on for the rest of their life.

So yeah, university should be about that breadth of experience, both in learning, but also all the extracurricular and whether that's activities and physical activities or whether it's even like clubs and societies. There's lots to offer and it's about finding that balance I think in your life and learning those skills to know how to manage your lifestyle moving forward and physical activity is obviously a massive part of that and how it affects your whole wellbeing.

So it's learning how to fit that in with studying and all the other things that go on in life. Because when you come out at some point, you have to manage all that.

Sarah (34:48.651)

Because it isn't just sport either, is it? We've talked a bit about sport and everything, but there's so many other activities on offer from the gym, group exercise as you mentioned, but things like yoga, mindfulness. I know we had mindfulness courses going on at Cardiff Met that you could go and join and they were really, really good. They were in a lovely little log cabin in a forest. I say forest, it was a few trees. But even so, it was in the middle of Cardiff, there's not a lot of forests in Cardiff. But what I mean is the environment was really, really lovely. And you felt like you were in a forest. And sometimes things like that, you know, it's giving things a go, isn't it, that really helps even if it's not something you like there's a boost to your mental health just saying well I tried it I didn't like it but I gave it a go I feel better for giving it a go and just making my own decisions and I think that's important isn't it and it's really good so tell me what activities you guys do Julie what are your favourite activities

Julie (35:44.573)

For me, I like doing a bit of strength and conditioning, which is very different from what I used to do. I was more into yoga and I've changed quite a bit, so I'm not as flexible as I used to be. But yeah, that's why I like doing this. Yeah, and that's the thing, it's like just, you know, sometimes changing and doing something different is really nice. You can kind of get too focused on the one thing, but I do need to get back into yoga. And I had that chat with Seona a couple of weeks ago.

Yeah, accountability buddies, yay. So Seona, what about you? What do you do?

julie (36:25.509)

So she'll be on to me.

Seona McKenzie (36:31.253)

Yeah, I like doing yoga, I like a bit more yoga. Probably got a bit less strength in the condition of weight than I probably should. So Julie and I probably are a good team that we should get each other up on. And also I love getting out on my bike. I enjoy my cycling as well. Get out in the fresh air.

Sarah (36:46.27)

It's, but I think like you say, and one thing that's really stood out for me actually, I think it was Seona that said it, was you know there is so many different activities to try at university that it's the ideal opportunity to give things a go that you wouldn't normally have bothered with in a safe environment. So either things that you wouldn't have bothered with or that you wouldn't have had the opportunity, but it's a chance to give it a go and meet different people, isn't it and that you know activity like I said earlier is a real it's a leveler it's a real level playing field in that you know who you are and what you do is irrelevant once you are in that activity and I think for a lot of people it's time when the pressure's off not necessarily the actual sports side of it I mean there are different pressures there but when you're training when you're taking part in a lot of these activities, a lot of the pressure just vanishes because you're focused on the activity, aren't you? And I think that's an important thing to stress. Is that something you talk about with students is activity will just help you step away from the way you're feeling for a while? Or is that something that they just kind of find? So now. Yeah.

Seona McKenzie (38:04.645)

I think about both to be honest. I think it is key if you meet with someone and we run like an exercise referral scheme here and you speak to the individual and you find out even more about their background and that's where there's maybe particular trigger points in the day that's where you could potentially try and look at, encourage them even if it's a five minute walk around the block, something like that. Just to sort of almost break that train of thought and be a bit more mindful, be in the moment.

If you sit down you get slouched, don't you? Whereas if you stand up, if you sit down you get both the pocket and we all shuffle about you and sit up better. It's the same idea, just by having that brain reset can be quite useful. But I think students do find, and you find that in feedback you get from students when they say that they're feeling better and they're quite surprised sometimes. Simple things can make a massive difference to their life.

julie (38:40.371)

That's it.

Sarah (39:01.77)

And I know it's, I mean, I know you've both done sort of the mental health and exercise courses and things. And it's something that I think a lot of people kind of don't link physical movement and mental health. Do they always? And I know, I mean, that's something that I know you both promote is the benefits of movement of any kind on boosting mental health, isn't it? Julie, is that something that you talk to them about?

julie (39:30.193)

Yeah it is and I think some of the challenges you have is trying to promote and convince you know your staff or your kind of wider university to promote that to your students as well. It's getting that message out there that this is just as important as the studies and in fact it probably will benefit the studies. You know if you've got your mental health and your mental well-being is in a better place, you're more likely to be productive, you're more likely to learn, which in turn then, you know, the university past level would be higher, the retention of the students would be higher. So the messaging and the support that you want to push out there might be different depending on who you're talking to across the university, so it's very different when we're speaking to students. I also think though with students, students want to hear from students, and you know, they want to hear and I think Seona's probably the same, our sports clubs, the members are really fab and on you know, Fescher's weekend opening days, they're really welcome into the new students and explain all about the sport and just touching back I think on that too is that you're right there's so many sports that they may not have been you know, being able to be involved with before, so many options for them to try and it's like you're having that confidence to go and try but say our clubs are really good at saying come and give us a go you know give it a try this probably is another one because you're going back to it at schools where P.E. and gym is you know we'll not go down that rabbit hole with this one but it's just you know getting that message out there to give something a try and try something that works for you because there is so many options. 

I think as well, we touched a little bit on societies as well, and although we will talk very much about physical activity, but it may be something, we've got a Taylor Swift society. So it may be something along those lines, yeah, yeah. And so you know, go along and, I don't know what they do, but they probably do a little bit of dancing and singing and enjoying themselves, you're having a great time. Sometimes we will tie in with the society and do a Taylor Swift super circuit, so all the songs are Taylor Swift and we try and get the society to come along. So it's just as a department you know, although we are offering so many things, what else is the uni doing? How can we work with you to then help your students or your, you know, members in your society to do something a little bit more active and, and give more opportunities to do that. So yeah, there's, there's so many things.

Sarah (41:22.006)

Oh really? And those are sort of, and let's face it, you know, it's all movement, isn't it? It's all movement. So, final words, what would be your message to any students who are just nervous, they're worried, they're kind of wondering if it's right for them? What would be your message? Seona.

julie (42:04.809)

Yeah, that's that. Yeah, if I could think of a thing.

Seona McKenzie (42:24.981)

it ago. Come along, explore, try things you might like them, you might not, try something else, but immerse yourself in the university experience.

Sarah (42:38.55)

Because at the end of the day, and I think this is important to remember, these sports clubs, the activity opportunities, the societies want people to join. They're not kind of exclusive little kind of places. They want people, they need people to join. So they will be welcoming. How about you, Julie? What would be a good message?

julie (43:02.645)

Yeah, just give it a try and also recognise if it's not for you, change to something else. You know, don't get stuck in one place. Try it out. See if you like it. If it works for you, fab. If it doesn't work, don't be scared to go, this isn't for me, and then try something else.

Sarah (43:20.814)

Brilliant. Thank you both so much for coming along. Like I say, it's such an important area. And I think Seona, you mentioned this at the beginning. It's often where people may become aware of mental health issues or they may be between two support services. And this is where physical activity in sport can be a real kind of connection for people to get some of that connection back. Thank you both so much. We've got Seona Mackenzie, we've got Julie Hughes, both from universities in Glasgow, one from University of Glasgow one from Stratclide university but thank you both so much for coming along and talking about this because it is such an important area for all of us.